The FINANCIAL — The Turkish Ambassador to Georgia does not believe that there is a growing risk of armed conflict between Turkey and Russia. Turkey, in partnership with its friends and allies, plans to continue to work for peace and stability in the region. According to the Ambassador, Russian sanctions had adverse consequences for the business communities of both Turkey and Russia. However, he has no doubt that Turkish entrepreneurs can find alternative markets to trade and invest in, if and when necessary. “In today’s competitive world, nothing is irreplaceable,” he said.
Zeki Levent Gümrükçü, Ambassador of Turkey to Georgia, rejected the information recently reported by German media that European diplomats have warned the Turkish Government that it cannot count on NATO support should the conflict with Russia escalate into an armed conflict. “These media reports are not true. NATO has on so many occasions publicly expressed its full solidarity with Turkey and reiterated its commitment to Turkey’s defence as part of its collective defence obligations. However, we do not expect Turkish-Russian tension to turn into an armed conflict. Our region is already beset by many crises and the last thing we need now is yet another military conflict. This is why Turkey, in partnership with its friends and allies, will continue to work for peace and stability in this region.”
“Turkey and Georgia are somewhat adversely affected from the recent regional developments around us, be it in Ukraine, Russia or Syria, and that it also had a toll on our trade volume, as evident by the drop in our bilateral trade in 2015. That said, there is a solid commitment on both sides to redress this negative turn and go back to a growing trend again. The meetings of the Economy Minister with some leading Turkish companies in tourism/construction and textile sectors also underlined the vast potential of new investments in Georgia by the Turkish businessmen,” said Gümrükçü.
Q. 2015 has been a year of political and economic tensions in the region. One of the most concerning issues has been the tense relations between Turkey and Russia. How have relations between the two countries changed during the past year?
A. One of the fundamental priorities of Turkey’s foreign policy has always been maintaining good relations with its neighbours, including Russia. This is why we have been trying hard to develop a mutually beneficial partnership with Russia, particularly following the end of the Cold War. We believe that as two important actors of the region, Turkish-Russian relations have a great potential to make a positive impact on the peace, stability and prosperity of our wider neighbourhood. In this regard, the progress we made in advancing our relationship over the last 25 years has been evident by the High-Level Cooperation Council established between the two countries, as well as the constantly growing volume of mutual trade and investments.
Against this backdrop, it is quite unfortunate that the incident which occurred last November as a result of Russia’s violation of our airspace has led to a quick deterioration of our relations. To start with, I have to underline that the shooting down of the Russian jet was not a deliberate attack against Russia, but it was merely a defensive move in protection of our airspace. Secondly, immediately after the incident, Turkey offered to engage in a dialogue with Russia at all possible levels to establish the facts, identify those responsible and take the necessary measures to prevent the recurrence of such events.
Unfortunately, to date, Russia refuses to heed our calls for such a dialogue. On the contrary, rather than talking to us, they have resorted to unilateral economic sanctions against Turkey, while making unfair and untruthful accusations about Turkey’s policies in the region. Turkey, on the other hand, has shown utmost restraint not to respond to Russia in the same way. Because, we believe that further escalation of tension between Turkey and Russia is not in the interest of either country or of the region in general. This is why we continue to keep our channels of dialogue open, while trying to convince Russia that its unilateral economic measures would in fact be detrimental to the interests of both our countries and peoples.
In sum, Turkey-Russia relations are still undergoing a difficult period due to the incident that took place last November. The future of this relationship, though, very much depends on how Russia will behave in this regard. If and when they are ready to talk about our differences and problems in a civilized fashion, they will have a ready partner. However, no one should expect Turkey to either give up on the defence of its territorial integrity or change its principled policies under pressure. Turkey’s main priority is to help generate peace and prosperity around itself and we are ready to work with every partner to this end.
Q. How have Russian sanctions on Turkish products damaged your economy?
A. As I have already mentioned, the sanctions are not affecting only one side, but are harmful for both countries. Yes, there are certain producers in Turkey who suffer in the short run due to the loss of the Russian market. But there are also many sectors in Russia which feel the negative impact of the absence of Turkish goods and products. In other words, it is the ordinary people and the business communities of both countries that bear the adverse consequences of these sanctions.
Having said that, in today’s competitive world, nothing is irreplaceable. This is particularly the case for a country like Turkey, which is one of the most vibrant economies of the world trading with more than 150 countries all over the globe. Our exports total around USD 150 billion, whereas our exports to Russia are less than USD 6 billion. Therefore, we have no doubt that our entrepreneurs can find alternative markets to trade and invest, if and when necessary. The same is valid for our tourism industry, as Turkey is currently one of the top 5 tourism destinations in the world.
In short, there is of course a certain negative impact of the Russian sanctions on Turkish economy. However, it is by no means of vital importance and its effect cannot reach beyond the immediate short-term, as the Turkish economy and its highly entrepreneurial business community is more than able to adjust itself to the changing dynamics. This is why we have been telling our Russian counterparts that sanctions are not the most effective tools of achieving foreign policy goals and that, on the contrary, they can be extremely counter-productive since they lead to a loss of confidence within the business world to the country that uses them in an arbitrary fashion.
Q. French President Francois Hollande recently said Ankara’s escalating involvement in the Syrian conflict was creating a risk of war between Turkey and Russia. Is this statement close to reality?
A. We do not believe that there is a growing risk of armed conflict between Turkey and Russia. We also do not think that it is useful to contemplate about such scenarios without taking all factors into consideration. First and foremost, as a responsible member of the international community, Turkey always does its utmost to avoid engaging in any military conflict. Secondly, a simple look into the last three months clearly shows Turkey’s unrelenting efforts to de-escalate tensions with Russia. Thirdly, Turkey from the very outset has always argued for a peaceful solution of the crisis in Syria. Therefore, if there is a country whose involvement in the Syrian conflict should be a source of concern, it is not Turkey but Russia, which continues to bomb innocent civilians and moderate opposition forces in support of the Assad regime, rather than fighting against DAESH as it claims to do.
If the reference to Turkey’s escalating involvement in the Syrian conflict was in relation with Turkey’s recent artillery fire against YPG forces in northern Syria, one should note that this is a notorious terrorist organization which pursues its own territorial interests in Syria and supports its sister terrorist organization in Turkey, PKK, in its terrorist activities in Turkey. In this respect, it is quite unfortunate to see that many countries, including some of our allies, tend to ignore this fact and cooperate with this organization for the sake of fighting another terrorist group, DAESH. Indeed, depending on a terrorist organization in the fight against another terrorist organization is, to say the least, a sign of grave weakness, which might certainly haunt us back in our global fight against terrorism.
Therefore, Turkey will continue to support every meaningful step towards a peaceful solution of the crisis in Syria, while fighting against terrorism in all its forms and manifestations. As to Russia, on the other hand, we want nothing but de-escalation of tension with this country. We also hope that this country will not only respond to our offers of dialogue to this end, but will also behave more responsibly in Syria and will facilitate a peaceful solution of the crisis, rather than supporting the regime forces and allying with terrorist organizations.
Q. Where do you see the place of Georgia while discussing the Russian-Turkish conflict?
A. Georgia is an important neighbour and a strategic partner of Turkey. And this has nothing to do with Russia. Our relationship is based on its own merits and has a solid mutually beneficial foundation. Therefore, our outlook towards Georgia has not been affected by the recent developments between us and Russia. In other words, we will continue to develop our strategic partnership with Georgia in the very same manner as we have done until today for the last 25 years. On the other hand, Turkish-Georgian relations are in many ways exemplary, demonstrating how genuine cooperation among neighbours can be mutually beneficial. We hope that all countries in our wider region can see it this way and take the necessary steps to expand the space of cooperation rather than narrowing it down to bones of contention.
Q. Turkey has been a candidate to join the EU longer than anyone else in the Union’s history. What is the current sentiment in the country towards the EU and how does Turkey see its future relations with the EU?
A. Membership to the EU has long been and is still a strategic objective of Turkey. We believe that Turkey’s EU membership would make both Turkey and the EU much stronger in achieving our common goals. Therefore, we are deeply committed to take all the necessary steps in fulfilling the membership criteria. However, as you mentioned, our membership process has long been stalled due to political obstacles created by some members of the EU, which unfortunately lack strategic vision and thus fail to see the great potential of Turkey’s EU membership. This is why popular support for EU membership in Turkey has over the years gone down considerably. But, that was not because Turkish people stopped believing in the merits of this project. They simply lost their faith and confidence in our EU counterparts.
However, lately that started to change again as a result of the renewed sense of togetherness between Turkey and the EU that emerged in the face of common challenges posed by the recent migrant crisis. Indeed, what started as a focused cooperation on migration issues quickly turned into a genuine effort on both sides to revitalize Turkey’s EU accession process. We are now hopeful that we will be able to proceed along this line and finally start making progress in bringing Turkey and the EU together.
Of course, I cannot give you a timeline for that ultimate objective. But given the mutual benefits, I am confident that this is a goal within our reach and that it will make an extremely positive impact, politically, economically and culturally not only in our region but everywhere in the world which follows this issue very closely.
Q. Turkey, according to estimates, has taken in more than 2 million Syrian refugees, which is understandably a source of pride. What are Turkish plans for them and what are the main problems that Ankara considers in terms of the refugees?
A. Indeed, Turkey is proud to be able to help millions of people running away from violence and repression in Syria. We consider this a humanitarian obligation that we cannot avoid, emerging from a human tragedy that we cannot turn a blind eye to. However, unfortunately not everyone sees it that way. This is why Turkey now hosts more Syrians than the rest of the 28 member countries of the EU. And today it is quite frustrating and even shameful to see many EU countries still debating not how they can more effectively share the responsibility of this refugee flow, but how they can keep it away from their own countries.
As you mentioned, Turkey is now hosting 2.8 million people from Syria alone and has so far spent close to USD 10 billion on their accommodation, education and healthcare. This of course brings many economic and social challenges for our country, as well as certain security risks. But, thanks to the extremely effective coordination among our state agencies and the understanding of the Turkish people, we have so far managed to not allow any of these challenges to turn into serious problems. However, the plight of the displaced Syrians is one of the greatest human tragedies of the world since the Second World War and it is neither fair nor sustainable to leave it to only Turkey and other neighbouring countries like Jordan and Lebanon to deal with this problem. No doubt, we will keep our doors open to those who are fleeing from death, but it is obvious that there needs to be a much better share of responsibility within the international community.
In this regard, besides having a more equitable distribution of the Syrians in countries that are able to support it, creating safe refuges within Syria itself can also be a practical and more humanitarian way to stem the flow of these people out of Syria. This is why Turkey has been arguing for a long period of time creation of such safe zones in the north of Syria where people can be protected from the violence of the regime and provided the necessary humanitarian assistance and shelter. Unfortunately, the international community has been extremely slow and inactive in this regard and now, rather than doing this, we see certain countries like Russia which is in fact doing the exact opposite, bombing those areas in Syria where civilians have their refugee camps. However, Turkey will continue to raise this issue and in addition to what we are doing in Turkey, will also try to help these people have access to protection and assistance in their own countries too.
That said, even if there is better cooperation within the international community in accommodating the refugee flow either in Syria or outside, this can only serve as an immediate relief and a temporary measure to alleviate the suffering of the people. Unless and until the crisis in Syria is brought to a solution, it is impossible to stop the constant displacement of these people. So, while thinking on how to deal with this problem, it is imperative that we also pay attention to the main reasons of this phenomenon and address it effectively.
Q. When we heard on a purely theoretical level that Georgia might have to take in Syrian refugees we received a largely negative reaction from society. Is this an issue of people’s intolerance or can you find some other explanation for it?
A. I have not myself noticed such a negative attitude in Georgia. But even in Europe, which is the most developed and prosperous continent of the whole world, we unfortunately see a strong mood against migrants/refugees. Whatever the reasons are, this is quite tragic. After all, in this part of the world we know very well the destruction of war and suffering of displaced people. This is why we should do everything possible to alleviate the suffering of the Syrians which are running away from one of the deadliest wars of our time. And this is precisely what guides Turkey in helping the Syrians and we will continue to urge all countries in the world to share more of this responsibility.
In this context, much of the responsibility rests with our political leaders. They must be able to tell people that, in today’s globalized world we cannot turn a blind eye to such human tragedies wherever they take place. It should be stressed that such behaviour is impossible both physically and morally. Physically, because, as we have witnessed for the last year or so, those who are coming to Turkey are no longer staying in our country, but trying every way to reach other countries in Europe too. Morally, because I don’t think that we can keep our conscience clear when we know that there are innocent civilians, women and children included, suffering at our doorstep.
Q. Speaking of IS, what is your view on its capabilities? Do you think there is a risk of their spreading to other neighbouring countries?
A. First of all, I prefer not to call this vicious terrorist organization IS, since what they do has nothing to do with Islam. On the contrary, they represent everything that Islam, as a religion of peace and compassion, is against. So I am not going to give them the pleasure of being associated with Islam in any way, even in their names, and thus use the acronym DAESH while referring to them.
As to your question, on the other hand, of course if we do not take the necessary measures in fighting and defeating DAESH, there is such a risk of spill-over. This is why Turkey has from the very outset been at the forefront of this fight against DAESH. As early as in 2013, we were one of the first countries to designate this group as a terrorist organization and since then take an active part in the international coalition fighting against them.
However, fighting DAESH cannot be confined only to military means in and around Syria. Yes, this is a priority which we are all agreed on. But to really defeat them requires a much wider strategy that will address its ideological roots and recruitment tactics. Otherwise, even if we uproot DAESH in Syria now, tomorrow there might be yet another radical terrorist organization in another part of the world using the same methods.
Therefore, we need to look more carefully into why youngsters in the prime of their lives are joining such a barbaric organization and then try to eliminate those reasons, be it economic, political, social, cultural or psychological. In doing this, we must also be self-critical at times, questioning our policies against religious minorities and ability to integrate people of different faith and ethnic backgrounds. Only in this way can we dry the recruitment pool of such radical terrorist organizations. And only if we act in genuine cooperation with each other, can we be successful in this endeavour.
Finally, of course, as I have already mentioned, unless and until we solve the crisis in Syria and the Middle East in general, there will always be breeding ground for such organizations which are fed on conflicts and grow at times of political vacuum.
Q. What is Turkey’s long-term plan for Syria?
A. We want a democratic Syria, where everyone irrespective of their ethnic or religious backgrounds can enjoy their human rights equally. We want an undivided Syria whose territorial integrity and political sovereignty is protected. We want a country where there is rule of law and accountability of institutions based on the will of its people. We want a neighbour with which we can build a common and prosperous future on the basis of mutually beneficial good-neighbourly relations. Simply put, we want a country that is at peace with its own people and neighbours. And we will do everything possible to reach that goal.
Q. How are ongoing political and economic processes influencing Turkish-Georgian economic relations?
A. Turkey is the number one trading partner of Georgia. We are also among the top foreign investors. And given the excellent relations between our countries and the growing ties between our business communities, I am confident that our economic relations will be even further strengthened and deepened in the future. However, it is also no secret that both our countries are somewhat adversely affected from the recent regional developments around us, be it in Ukraine, Russia or Syria, and that it also had a toll on our trade volume, as evident by the drop in our bilateral trade in 2015.
That said, there is a solid commitment on both sides to redress this negative turn and go back to a growing trend again. In this regard, the visit of the Georgian Economy Minister to Turkey last week has been quite fruitful. At the governmental level, we agreed that we will do everything possible to increase our total trade volume with a particular emphasis on increasing Georgian exports to Turkey, which is much lower than its imports from Turkey. Moreover, the meetings of the Economy Minister with some leading Turkish companies in tourism/construction and textile sectors also underlined the vast potential of new investments in Georgia by Turkish businessmen.
In short, Turkish-Georgian economic relations have a solid foundation with all necessary legislative infrastructure in place, including the Free Trade Agreement. In the past 25 years, we have also developed a sound network between our business communities based on mutual confidence and benefit. And maybe even more importantly, our outlook towards the developments around us is very much in line with each other, keeping us always on the same side. Therefore, the future prospects of both our economic and political relations are indeed bright.
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