U.S. Ambassador: “Chinese Communist Party, the PRC, is the number one bankroller, the number one financier of the Russian military today”

Ambassador Dunnigan: So first, thank you Salome for taking the time to do this. I do want to answer your specific question about the visa restrictions, but I actually would like to start a little bigger picture if I could, because I think it’s so important at this moment to tell the story of the U.S. commitment to Georgia. We have such an incredibly strong partnership, and any American you meet, who knows Georgia or knows about Georgia, loves this country, and has real respect and appreciation for this country. Over 32 years, together we’ve built this partnership that really tries to build up Georgia and has also helped the United States. So, we want a Georgia that’s prosperous, that’s stable, that is able to defend itself. We want a Georgia that has a well-equipped and well-trained military, and a well-equipped coast guard. We want Georgia with a strong education system and a Georgia that creates jobs for Georgians so they can stay here and not go to other countries to work. And we want a Georgia that can protect its cultural heritage and language. So, all of our assistance and cooperation over 32 years has worked to help achieve that.  And, I think, it’s been an incredible success story.  And we are so committed to this partnership. So, when I came to Georgia in October, I came knowing that there were some challenges in our relationship.  But I came absolutely committed to working with the government and the people of Georgia to get back on track to this rich partnership that we have.

We did that together when I first got here; we made some real progress. One of the first things I did was travel to Brussels to advocate for Georgia getting candidate status, which Washington also supported.  And the EU, which of course was responsible for the decision, made an excellent decision in my view. So, we were doing, I think, very well in a fresh start on our relationship. But, over the last several months, the government has taken some actions that are extremely concerning. One has been the disinformation and negative rhetoric about the West. Another is the foreign agent’s law, which we believe is contrary to the stated aspirations of the Georgian people. Another is some of the violence and intimidation against peaceful protestors, civil society folks, and opposition party members. All of those actions led us to the unfortunate circumstance of where we are today, which is the U.S. imposing these visa restrictions.  And I want to reiterate that none of us in the United States want to be doing this.  We want to get back to a positive partnership with the government, but recent actions led to the Secretary determining that those individuals and their families, those individuals who are complicit in some of these actions undermining democracy, spreading disinformation, violence against citizens, that they will be restricted from entering the United States. So, as you mentioned, one tranche has been implemented and those people who have visas were notified that they are no longer valid, and if they didn’t have a visa, they don’t qualify anymore.  The Secretary of State has been very clear that there will likely be further consequences. Does it have to happen? No. I would very much like to see the government reverse course and take action so that we don’t have to impose more consequences. Is it targeted against the Georgian people? Are we trying to sanction the Georgian people? Absolutely not. We want what’s best for this country. We want this country to be successful. So, the consequences that we’ve imposed are a tool to try to change behavior, not to punish the Georgian people. They’re very targeted.  And my hope is that they will send a signal so some of the negative behavior can be reversed.

Reporter: Thank you. I would like to go further on these sanctions, but first of all I want to ask you, you just said that at first when you came here, you had a good cooperation with our government and suddenly for this several months, something changed. If you have any idea, you or back in the Washington, why the Georgian government decides to go with this controversial law, which the civil society said that it’s undemocratic. So, what is your version?

Ambassador Dunnigan: What is the motivation? You know, when I look at actions of governments, I like to think of them in terms of how are they serving the people of the country. You know, we’re getting close to the United States’ Independence Day and we have a saying that President Abraham Lincoln first said in the Gettysburg Address, which is democracies mean government of the people, by the people, for the people. So, when new policies are enacted in the United States or here or any democracy, you have to ask, how is this serving the people of the country? What I would say in this case is that’s ultimately for the Georgian people to decide and the Georgian elected officials to decide whether or not these actions are serving the people.

But I can tell you that the EU has said very clearly that these actions are not in line with Georgia’s EU trajectory and will stop or slow down or hinder Georgia’s path to EU membership. The United States has said very clearly that these actions are having a negative impact on our bilateral relationship and put our support for Georgia at risk. Members of the economy and private sector here in Georgia have said these actions have been very negative for the Georgian economy, for the tourism industry, for the stability of the Lari, for interest rates, for those companies that are traded publicly.  It has not been good for the Georgian economy. So ultimately, it’s up for the Georgian people to decide:  are these actions motivated to serve the people of Georgia or are they motivated to serve someone’s personal interests?

Reporter: So the U.S. State Department has stated several times that U.S. is prepared to undertake full review of relationships. So, I would like to ask you more specifically, what does it mean and how should we conceive it? So, it means that, for example, we will have not cooperation in non-governmental organizations or military cooperation will be stopped, or the support, financial support will drop to zero or how should we understand it?

Ambassador Dunnigan: I mean, unfortunately, … let me reiterate, I hope we don’t get here, over to this point.  And over recent days, senior members of the government, including the Prime Minister, have said that they hope that we can put our relationship back on track, but we’ve also been very clear that the Secretary is reviewing the entire relationship from specific cooperation to assistance across all agencies. So, what does that really mean?  When we talk about our assistance.  Yesterday, the EU produced a very interesting statistic and infographic. I don’t know if you saw it, but it shows that the top 10 recipients of European Union assistance goes to government ministries or agencies. Similarly, the majority of U.S. assistance goes to either support directly government ministries or the policies of the government. So, our assistance does things, like, help people with disabilities. We support families of children with Down Syndrome. We support hospital workers. We give assistance to schools and minority areas.  We have helped build, train, and equip the Georgian Defense Forces. We have helped build, train, and equip the Georgian Coast Guard. We’ve helped build irrigation systems and agricultural, it’s just a vast network of partnerships we’ve built across this country. Secretary Blinken has been very clear that unfortunately all of that assistance is at risk. We don’t want to do this, but we have made clear that it’s very difficult to continue a strong partnership in all these areas if the government considers us an adversary. And, some of the statements by some members of the party and government have characterized us and the EU as adversaries.

Reporter: So, according to the Georgian Government, still no one could specify what is so problematic in this law of transparency of foreign influence. So, I would like you to tell us what is so problematic in this law? Is it all, or if maybe there are some articles that can be changed that this law will transform to another form. So, can you specify this?

Ambassador Dunnigan: Well, luckily, I can, but I don’t need to because the Venice Commission and ODHIR – the OSCE – have been extremely clear and provided written explanations of how the law is incompatible with EU laws and norms, and incompatible with the European Court of Human Rights. And in fact, the Venice Commission’s legal statement is quite long, but it’s summarized in paragraph 96, I believe, which very clearly lays out the specific legal articles which are problematic. Legal articles in the EU that this law isn’t compatible with.  EU leadership, President of the Commission, President of the European Council, have stated very clearly that the law is legally incompatible with EU norms and standards. So, it’s not accurate to say that the international community has not been clear about which specific aspects of the law aren’t compatible. It’s very clearly written in both of those analyses. But you know, again, it gets back to what problem is trying to be fixed here? Because the vast majority of our assistance goes to support government policies, civil society organizations that work across the spectrum in Georgia, some of those organizations, the government has been very clear that they do hope to stigmatize. Some of those, particularly in the democracy and human rights sphere. Those are important voices in democracies. Not every voice in a democracy is going to agree with everything a government does. That’s part of being an elected official in a democracy.

Reporter:  You emphasized the rhetoric of the Georgian governments, so let’s say that theoretically, tomorrow the Georgian government decides to cancel this controversial law. Would it normalize relationships with the U.S. and other partners in European Union as well? Or should officials solicitate other steps, for example, also to cancel it’s a rhetoric towards the partners.

Ambassador: From the U.S. perspective, it would be an exceptionally important step in improving our relationship and helping to get to a place where we can stop any negative consequences but it’s not the only step. I think the end, stopping the disinformation about the United States and the West, the negative rhetoric, and the violence against any protestors or violence against peaceful assembly. Those would also be important steps.  But it would be a very important first step. And I don’t want to speak with the EU, but the EU has also publicly pointed to the same similar areas, the disinformation and rhetoric, the law, and violence against peaceful protestors.

Reporter: Would it be dependent on how the October parliamentary elections will take place in Georgia to normalize the situation between the partners?

Ambassador: We would like and hope to support free and fair elections here in October. This is a changeable course for the Georgian government. It doesn’t have to wait until the elections.  The Georgian government can take steps now that would help improve the situation. I very much want to see that happen. I hope the government does that. The elections are sort of a separate issue. What we want for the elections is that they’re free and fair. The government has welcomed international and local observers. I hope that happens, and I hope that Georgian citizens come out to vote and that they have exercised their voice in democracy.

Reporter: Before we end our interview, I would like to raise one other issue. It’s about Anaklia Port Project. What is the Washington and your view you about the Chinese Singaporean company entered this project. So how do you estimate it? and also, I would like to say that the Georgia government explained that no one prevented American companies to take part, but they have no such an interest.

Reporter: Development of the Middle Corridor and the critical infrastructure of Georgia is critical.  And I want to say that getting back to my commitment to our bilateral partnership next week or this weekend, I’m going to be in the United States accompanying a delegation of 40 Georgian business people. More than 20 companies, Georgian companies.  I am going to be bringing them to the United States to talk about investment in, in business ties in the United States. They’ll be meeting with the Secretary of Commerce of the United States.  They’ll have a meeting at the White House. I’m doing this to help deepen our economic ties. So, I believe that the economic ties between the United States and Georgia are absolutely essential. I just met with the representatives of those companies last night who are all preparing to go, and they have these really great meetings set up with interlocutors in the United States and some real investment I think is going to result on both sides – more investment here by United States companies and more investment in the United States. So absolutely committed to this economic partnership.

On Anaklia, the company that the government awarded the contract to CCCC is majority owned by the Chinese Communist Party and is known to be affiliated with the Chinese military. I just want to say that the Chinese Communist Party, the PRC, is the number one bankroller, the number one financier of the Russian military today. So, one question is why deepen an economic tie with the party that is financing your occupier, because the Russian military interesting is being financed by the Chinese Communist Party. That’s one question.  But then there’s just a question about the quality and standards of the company in question. So CCCC does not have a good reputation globally.  In 2009, the World Bank barred the bank from providing financing to infrastructure projects done by this company due to past fraud. Recently the company built a port in Sri Lanka and there’s a lot of controversy around this port. I don’t know if you’ve read about it, but ultimately the Chinese government was able to secure a 99-year lease on Sri Lankan soil. Its ships, military ships, research vessels can come in and out at will. So, there’s a lot of controversy about Sri Lanka giving up some of its sovereignty in a key critical infrastructure piece that’s involving this company. The United States Treasury has determined that this company is a company that is on a list of companies that have deep ties with the Communist party’s military. So, there are a lot of concerns about Anaklia. Of course it’s a sovereign decision, but I’m just reiterating some of the concerns that are seen globally about this particular company.

Reporter: Thank you. Finally, you know that today is a very important sports day for Georgia, and you may know that it’s first time that Georgian team is attending the European Championship. So maybe you will share your wishes.

Ambassador: I’m a huge football slash soccer fan, and I was at the qualifying match here in Tbilisi. So, it was such a joy to share that moment with so many Georgians and it was such a unifying moment for Georgia, right.  And it’s why I want to end the interview on an optimistic note. I’m really hopeful and certain that Georgia will win tonight. I hope they do. I wish I would be there and I’m wishing all the best for all of Georgia. But look, I think that Georgians were so happy not only because they support their team, but because Georgia’s qualifying for the European championship where Georgia belongs.

And, here’s my final note. Let’s do together all we can to get Georgia back on that path. So that Georgia’s a member of the EU, it’s moving at the same pace as Ukraine and Moldova, and that in just a couple years’ time we can say that George is a member of the European Union. Nothing would make me happier.

Copyright: Interpressnews